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	<title>Comments on: Nats &amp; Vazquez; Do people really think Detwiler is going to the bullpen?</title>
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	<description>&#34;... the reason you win or lose is darn near always the same - pitching.”  -- Earl Weaver</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 25 May 2013 02:57:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tegwar</title>
		<link>http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710&#038;cpage=1#comment-8130</link>
		<dc:creator>Tegwar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2013 17:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710#comment-8130</guid>
		<description>No Mas!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Mas!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Lebowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710&#038;cpage=1#comment-8129</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Lebowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710#comment-8129</guid>
		<description>If I was Keith Law, I&#039;d find some Latin phrase to reply as to why the Yankees would be idiotic to bring Vazquez back a third time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I was Keith Law, I&#8217;d find some Latin phrase to reply as to why the Yankees would be idiotic to bring Vazquez back a third time.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark L</title>
		<link>http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710&#038;cpage=1#comment-8128</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710#comment-8128</guid>
		<description>Todd, I&#039;m going with you on this one. Yes, there are no LOOGIES in the bullpen; but they won&#039;t need one now.

Detweiler is a step up over Vasquez.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd, I&#8217;m going with you on this one. Yes, there are no LOOGIES in the bullpen; but they won&#8217;t need one now.</p>
<p>Detweiler is a step up over Vasquez.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Boss</title>
		<link>http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710&#038;cpage=1#comment-8121</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Boss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2013 02:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710#comment-8121</guid>
		<description>Duke and Bray.  Long man and specialist.  done and done.

Duke looked excellent out of the pen in September for the team.  2 runs in 13 2/3 innings.  Small sample size yes, but they&#039;re not asking him to make 33 starts in 2013.  They&#039;re asking him to do mop-up duty.  You don&#039;t need a stud as your 7th man out of the bullpen.

Yes; ERA+ in this day and age is a very standard statistic to use to neutralize ERA and get a quick gauge of a pitcher.  If you don&#039;t like ERA+, then tell me a statistic that shows how for some reason Detwiler was not an effective starter in the Major Leagues last year.

I&#039;m glad scouts are raving about Vazquez.  It sounds to me like he&#039;s &quot;winning&quot; the off-season.  The talent level in the Puerto Rican winter league is AAA at best; our own Yunesky Maya destroyed a winter league two off-seasons ago and he is barely adequate in AAA.   You show an amazing amount of trust in a guy who just up and quit the game, who hasn&#039;t pitched against major leaguers in a year, and who was slightly better than league average in 2011 but god-awful in 2010.   I guess we&#039;ll see.

This is entirely a moot argument, by the way, since some team out there besides the Nats is almost certain to give him a MLB contract while the reporting seems to indicate that the Nats won&#039;t give him anything else besides a minor league deal with an out.  He&#039;ll get his shot presumably pitching for some last place team with dire rotation needs (Cleveland?  Colorado?  Miami?  Houston?) and then we&#039;ll see how effective he really is.  

Here&#039;s a question; how come the  Yankees aren&#039;t all-in on him, if he&#039;s looking so good?  Aren&#039;t the Yankees in a pretty precarious situation from the starting pitching stand point?  You&#039;ve got Sabathia coming off injury, you&#039;ve got two guys either 40 or nearing it, you&#039;ve got a guy coming off major arm surgery in Pineda and youv&#039;e got a couple of inconsistent younger arms.  Why aren&#039;t the yankees full in on Vazquez?  Oh i remember; because he was worse than useless for them in 2010.  How do you reconcile his performance in NY in 2010 versus your stellar opinion of him now?  You think he&#039;s magically become the 2nd coming of Roger Clemens after taking a year off of pitching professionally?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duke and Bray.  Long man and specialist.  done and done.</p>
<p>Duke looked excellent out of the pen in September for the team.  2 runs in 13 2/3 innings.  Small sample size yes, but they&#8217;re not asking him to make 33 starts in 2013.  They&#8217;re asking him to do mop-up duty.  You don&#8217;t need a stud as your 7th man out of the bullpen.</p>
<p>Yes; ERA+ in this day and age is a very standard statistic to use to neutralize ERA and get a quick gauge of a pitcher.  If you don&#8217;t like ERA+, then tell me a statistic that shows how for some reason Detwiler was not an effective starter in the Major Leagues last year.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad scouts are raving about Vazquez.  It sounds to me like he&#8217;s &#8220;winning&#8221; the off-season.  The talent level in the Puerto Rican winter league is AAA at best; our own Yunesky Maya destroyed a winter league two off-seasons ago and he is barely adequate in AAA.   You show an amazing amount of trust in a guy who just up and quit the game, who hasn&#8217;t pitched against major leaguers in a year, and who was slightly better than league average in 2011 but god-awful in 2010.   I guess we&#8217;ll see.</p>
<p>This is entirely a moot argument, by the way, since some team out there besides the Nats is almost certain to give him a MLB contract while the reporting seems to indicate that the Nats won&#8217;t give him anything else besides a minor league deal with an out.  He&#8217;ll get his shot presumably pitching for some last place team with dire rotation needs (Cleveland?  Colorado?  Miami?  Houston?) and then we&#8217;ll see how effective he really is.  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a question; how come the  Yankees aren&#8217;t all-in on him, if he&#8217;s looking so good?  Aren&#8217;t the Yankees in a pretty precarious situation from the starting pitching stand point?  You&#8217;ve got Sabathia coming off injury, you&#8217;ve got two guys either 40 or nearing it, you&#8217;ve got a guy coming off major arm surgery in Pineda and youv&#8217;e got a couple of inconsistent younger arms.  Why aren&#8217;t the yankees full in on Vazquez?  Oh i remember; because he was worse than useless for them in 2010.  How do you reconcile his performance in NY in 2010 versus your stellar opinion of him now?  You think he&#8217;s magically become the 2nd coming of Roger Clemens after taking a year off of pitching professionally?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Lebowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710&#038;cpage=1#comment-8120</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Lebowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710#comment-8120</guid>
		<description>They&#039;re going to need at least two lefties. One long man and one specialist. Just cut it out. 
Duke is awful. I&#039;ve always liked Bray, but he&#039;s constantly hurt. 
&quot;Well worn statistics&quot;? Which ones? The ones you&#039;re cherrypicking to prove a point that no one else agrees with? All the scouts are *raving* about Vazquez. He&#039;ll get a big league contract and given his career history--as long as he doesn&#039;t do something stupid like go back to the AL East--show that he&#039;s a very good pitcher who will be better than Detwiler.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;re going to need at least two lefties. One long man and one specialist. Just cut it out.<br />
Duke is awful. I&#8217;ve always liked Bray, but he&#8217;s constantly hurt.<br />
&#8220;Well worn statistics&#8221;? Which ones? The ones you&#8217;re cherrypicking to prove a point that no one else agrees with? All the scouts are *raving* about Vazquez. He&#8217;ll get a big league contract and given his career history&#8211;as long as he doesn&#8217;t do something stupid like go back to the AL East&#8211;show that he&#8217;s a very good pitcher who will be better than Detwiler.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Boss</title>
		<link>http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710&#038;cpage=1#comment-8119</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Boss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710#comment-8119</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re clinging to the belief that you need lefties to get lefties out.   Clippard&#039;s split line against lefties in 2012: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=clippty01&amp;year=2012&amp;t=p&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;.170/.260/.259&lt;/a&gt;.   Soriano: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=soriara01&amp;year=2012&amp;t=p&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;.221/.316/.397&lt;/a&gt;.  Stammen: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=stammcr01&amp;year=&amp;t=p&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;.198/.274/.331&lt;/a&gt;.   Henry Rodriguez:&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=rodrihe03&amp;year=&amp;t=p&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; .208/.356/.354&lt;/a&gt;.  All four of those guys are right handed and have ridiculously low lefty batting averages against.  Throw in Duke and Bray (I&#039;m not sure why you think Bray is not in the mix here: he was pretty effective in 2008 and 2011, seasons in which he wasn&#039;t injured.  His injury last year wasn&#039;t arm-related and you&#039;d have to think he&#039;s a good bet to make the bullpen as a loogy) and you have a pretty good bullpen all things considered to go against lefties.

Plus, the off-season isn&#039;t over yet.  The team has signed a number of lefty relievers to minor league deals, which is exactly what they did with Michael Gonzalez last season and he pitched very effectively for us as well.  You don&#039;t need to spend millions of dollars on a matchup lefty; you just need to find the hot arm.

Putting Detwiler in the bullpen would be a ridiculous waste of the potential he showed last year, just to adhere to some old-fashioned notion that you HAVE TO HAVE another lefty in the bullpen.

Your inability to recognize well-worn statistics and mathematical evidence when you make your arguments really hurts your credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re clinging to the belief that you need lefties to get lefties out.   Clippard&#8217;s split line against lefties in 2012: <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=clippty01&amp;year=2012&amp;t=p" rel="nofollow">.170/.260/.259</a>.   Soriano: <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=soriara01&amp;year=2012&amp;t=p" rel="nofollow">.221/.316/.397</a>.  Stammen: <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=stammcr01&amp;year=&amp;t=p" rel="nofollow">.198/.274/.331</a>.   Henry Rodriguez:<a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=rodrihe03&amp;year=&amp;t=p" rel="nofollow"> .208/.356/.354</a>.  All four of those guys are right handed and have ridiculously low lefty batting averages against.  Throw in Duke and Bray (I&#8217;m not sure why you think Bray is not in the mix here: he was pretty effective in 2008 and 2011, seasons in which he wasn&#8217;t injured.  His injury last year wasn&#8217;t arm-related and you&#8217;d have to think he&#8217;s a good bet to make the bullpen as a loogy) and you have a pretty good bullpen all things considered to go against lefties.</p>
<p>Plus, the off-season isn&#8217;t over yet.  The team has signed a number of lefty relievers to minor league deals, which is exactly what they did with Michael Gonzalez last season and he pitched very effectively for us as well.  You don&#8217;t need to spend millions of dollars on a matchup lefty; you just need to find the hot arm.</p>
<p>Putting Detwiler in the bullpen would be a ridiculous waste of the potential he showed last year, just to adhere to some old-fashioned notion that you HAVE TO HAVE another lefty in the bullpen.</p>
<p>Your inability to recognize well-worn statistics and mathematical evidence when you make your arguments really hurts your credibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Lebowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710&#038;cpage=1#comment-8117</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Lebowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2013 00:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710#comment-8117</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m stunned how you cling to this when the NATS are looking at Vazquez and have no one other than Detwiler  to stick into a bullpen where they HAVE NO LEFTIES!!!! 
Your ego is getting in the way of reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m stunned how you cling to this when the NATS are looking at Vazquez and have no one other than Detwiler  to stick into a bullpen where they HAVE NO LEFTIES!!!!<br />
Your ego is getting in the way of reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Boss</title>
		<link>http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710&#038;cpage=1#comment-8115</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Boss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2013 00:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710#comment-8115</guid>
		<description>I think i&#039;ll take a guy with a 117 era+ in 2012 versus a guy who sat out last year, who had a 106 ERA+ the year prior, who isn&#039;t left handed and isn&#039;t entirely a guarantee to play in 2012 just yet.

Just for reference, here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://paullebowitz.com/blog/?p=7278&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;your initial ridiculous argument for this&lt;/a&gt;, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://paullebowitz.com/blog/?p=7349&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the subsequent one&lt;/a&gt;.   In the first section, your &quot;proof&quot; is an opinion from &quot;scanning the box scores&quot; of Detwiler&#039;s starts to arrive at an opinion that he&#039;s a 5-inning pitcher.  He also mentions Detwiler&#039;s ERA at AAA in 2011.  I dunno; I;m pretty sure I&#039;d trust MLB numbers in 2012 versus AAA numbers in 2011 as &quot;proof&quot; that Detwiler was an effective starter.

Just a couple of &quot;statistics&quot; on this issue.  I know statistics are a tough concept for you to use when stating an opinion about things.  In 27 starts last year Detwiler threw 151 innings, for an average of 5.59 Innings/start.  Jackson, the &quot;known innings eater&quot; in your parlance, threw 189 2/3 innings in 31 starts for 6.11 innings/start.  The difference on average between someone who throws 6.11 and 5.59 innings per stat is .52 of an inning, or exactly between 1 and 2 more outs per outing.  

I love how one or two more outs per outing is the difference between &quot;weak 5 inning pitcher&quot; and &quot;innings eater.&quot;

In the latter article, you lists a bunch of pitchers that you &quot;think are better&quot; than Detwiler.  I love how your &quot;proof&quot; involves your opinion on &quot;how good&quot; a pitcher is, versus something concrete and quantitative.  Like a statistic.  Like a statistic that most other recognized baseball pundits use rather often as a nice gauge of how a pitcher fares compared to the rest of the league on a year to year basis, park and league adjusted (the ERA+ figure).  You list Lincecum as being &quot;better&quot; than Detwiler; well not in 2012 he wasn&#039;t.  In fact, Lincecum was pretty much the worst (or close to it) pitcher statistically in every category in 2012.  All things being equal, if you only knew of 2012&#039;s performance for those two guys nobody would prefer Lincecum to Detwiler in 2013.

Maybe that&#039;s the rub.  Maybe you just doesn&#039;t believe that 2012 was a season indicative of what Detwiler is capable of.  I wasn&#039;t for a long time.  However i&#039;m a believer now; he finally got a chance, he finally was given an entire major league season to show what he can do, and he delivered.  

I believe that what a player did last year (if there wasn&#039;t some other alternative reason for doing so, like an injury) is a pretty good indicator of what he&#039;s going to do this season.  Morse hit 30 homers in 2011; I can&#039;t see why he isn&#039;t capable of repeating that feat again if he stays healthy.  If you think Lincecum&#039;s 2012 was just an aberration and that he&#039;s going to return to his Cy Young form in 2013 like nothing happened ... well, that&#039;s one way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think i&#8217;ll take a guy with a 117 era+ in 2012 versus a guy who sat out last year, who had a 106 ERA+ the year prior, who isn&#8217;t left handed and isn&#8217;t entirely a guarantee to play in 2012 just yet.</p>
<p>Just for reference, here&#8217;s <a href="http://paullebowitz.com/blog/?p=7278" rel="nofollow">your initial ridiculous argument for this</a>, and <a href="http://paullebowitz.com/blog/?p=7349" rel="nofollow">the subsequent one</a>.   In the first section, your &#8220;proof&#8221; is an opinion from &#8220;scanning the box scores&#8221; of Detwiler&#8217;s starts to arrive at an opinion that he&#8217;s a 5-inning pitcher.  He also mentions Detwiler&#8217;s ERA at AAA in 2011.  I dunno; I;m pretty sure I&#8217;d trust MLB numbers in 2012 versus AAA numbers in 2011 as &#8220;proof&#8221; that Detwiler was an effective starter.</p>
<p>Just a couple of &#8220;statistics&#8221; on this issue.  I know statistics are a tough concept for you to use when stating an opinion about things.  In 27 starts last year Detwiler threw 151 innings, for an average of 5.59 Innings/start.  Jackson, the &#8220;known innings eater&#8221; in your parlance, threw 189 2/3 innings in 31 starts for 6.11 innings/start.  The difference on average between someone who throws 6.11 and 5.59 innings per stat is .52 of an inning, or exactly between 1 and 2 more outs per outing.  </p>
<p>I love how one or two more outs per outing is the difference between &#8220;weak 5 inning pitcher&#8221; and &#8220;innings eater.&#8221;</p>
<p>In the latter article, you lists a bunch of pitchers that you &#8220;think are better&#8221; than Detwiler.  I love how your &#8220;proof&#8221; involves your opinion on &#8220;how good&#8221; a pitcher is, versus something concrete and quantitative.  Like a statistic.  Like a statistic that most other recognized baseball pundits use rather often as a nice gauge of how a pitcher fares compared to the rest of the league on a year to year basis, park and league adjusted (the ERA+ figure).  You list Lincecum as being &#8220;better&#8221; than Detwiler; well not in 2012 he wasn&#8217;t.  In fact, Lincecum was pretty much the worst (or close to it) pitcher statistically in every category in 2012.  All things being equal, if you only knew of 2012&#8217;s performance for those two guys nobody would prefer Lincecum to Detwiler in 2013.</p>
<p>Maybe that&#8217;s the rub.  Maybe you just doesn&#8217;t believe that 2012 was a season indicative of what Detwiler is capable of.  I wasn&#8217;t for a long time.  However i&#8217;m a believer now; he finally got a chance, he finally was given an entire major league season to show what he can do, and he delivered.  </p>
<p>I believe that what a player did last year (if there wasn&#8217;t some other alternative reason for doing so, like an injury) is a pretty good indicator of what he&#8217;s going to do this season.  Morse hit 30 homers in 2011; I can&#8217;t see why he isn&#8217;t capable of repeating that feat again if he stays healthy.  If you think Lincecum&#8217;s 2012 was just an aberration and that he&#8217;s going to return to his Cy Young form in 2013 like nothing happened &#8230; well, that&#8217;s one way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Lebowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710&#038;cpage=1#comment-8114</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Lebowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710#comment-8114</guid>
		<description>I gave you reasons. There is no &quot;proof.&quot; You just don&#039;t like the reasons I gave you. 
You&#039;ve been consistently wrong on this issue and continue moving the goalposts to try and prove yourself right for reasons I don&#039;t understand. What&#039;s the difference to you? They&#039;ll be a better team with Vazquez as a starter and Detwiler in the bullpen. I&#039;m not sure why, other than a desperate need to be right, you&#039;re clinging to this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gave you reasons. There is no &#8220;proof.&#8221; You just don&#8217;t like the reasons I gave you.<br />
You&#8217;ve been consistently wrong on this issue and continue moving the goalposts to try and prove yourself right for reasons I don&#8217;t understand. What&#8217;s the difference to you? They&#8217;ll be a better team with Vazquez as a starter and Detwiler in the bullpen. I&#8217;m not sure why, other than a desperate need to be right, you&#8217;re clinging to this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Boss</title>
		<link>http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710&#038;cpage=1#comment-8106</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Boss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2013 03:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5710#comment-8106</guid>
		<description>Man, I looked at comments before news and didn&#039;t see the trade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, I looked at comments before news and didn&#8217;t see the trade.</p>
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